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xero
I like the look of xero but it seems as though it almost makes the book keeping redundant. We have this as an arm of the business and the people employed in it are not accountants so cannot be redeployed. Are we going to find that encouraging clients to take up xero actually loses us money? I know some may argue we will save time but as we charge by time and have no other work to fill the void, that is not really much help.
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Might limiting yourself to Xero create another issue? 1 thanks
Not really answering your question I know, so I apologise for cutting across your thread.
Might limiting yourself to xero as the 'universal solution' create another issue, especially for new clients? Why not instead evaluate your clients requirements and guide them to the most appropriate solution in their circumstances which could be anything from a book, a desktop software application or indeed, a cloud-based solution such as xero.
Painting the picture that there is only one solution to all scenarios seems unnecessarily limiting and will potentially put some clients off. Well, it would put me off!
Captain
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We are already doing that. I
We are already doing that. I have analysed our clients into various categories depending on all the relevant variables. We already offer a wide variety of things. My point is just that I feel we could be putting ourselves at financial risk or having to make someone redundant as a result, so not something I want to embark on lightly. We are already offering all the usual suspects to clients but this one seems much easier and quicker and thus I think the take up of it will be higher than the likes of Sage.
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Unfortunately ...
... such is life, but many won't want to maintain Xero, they will like the dash boards but won't want to run it themsleves.
But you risk losing clients if someone else, as they inevitably will, introduces them to Xero or similar, and if that happens you may well create "badwill" that spreads round your client base.
It is painful, but as a trusted professional advisor the best advice for a client may be the worst advice for you.
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Totally agree with all said
Totally agree with all said OGA.
We are going to go for it and I will try and manage the various requirements and foibles of the individual clients.
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their next thing is final accounts with ixbrl
Listened to a webinar this morning and found out that shorlty they will be allowing clients access to final accounts software with ixbrl so they can send it off to HMRC...did make me think that by introducing clients to xero I was shooting myself in the foot-I only deal with small one or two man band ltd companies, not any larger than that so I could be by this...or will clients still not be bothered to do it themselves?
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No turning back 1 thanks
Practically every compliance related activity, from bookkeeping to transacting with others and the government, has, over the past 30 years, been simplified, diluted and demystified by IT and changing regulation, as OGA says, such is life.
In some instances, say for example with the dropping of audit regulation and then the advent of Self Assessment, we had reasonable notice and so could retrain and shift direction however with other developments, unless you look up from your desk every now and again, there is no warning and so, if you didn't see online accounting coming and treat is as an opportunity rather than a threat, then many firms, especially bookkeepers, are in for a shock.
It's now here to stay and will be the norm in maybe 2 years but it's still bookkeeping and so there's lots of work around to get clients, especially all those who have never used computerised accounting, switched on to it.
There are also thousands of small businesses who started out doing their own books in the Cloud and even their own year end submissions, who have never used an accountant, but who may, one day, need one and so will be looking for one familiar with the system they use.
We have lost a quite a bit of income over the past 2-3 years switching clients over, not just because we lost the work of 4-5 bookkeeping jobs, but in how much easier the whole process of books-accounts has now become, reducing our year end work You can however spread the effect by charging for the switchover with the promise (reality) of lower annual fees in the future.
It has also meant that we are now a lot closer on a regular basis to these clients and have we have benefitted from providing them with more advanced advice and services.
So, the benefit from your point of view is in having expert bookkeepers who can now train up on maybe 2-3 systems (yes to FreeAgent & Xero) and then getting out there to get the work in.
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agree 1 thanks
two sheds wrote:
Listened to a webinar this morning and found out that shorlty they will be allowing clients access to final accounts software with ixbrl so they can send it off to HMRC...did make me think that by introducing clients to xero I was shooting myself in the foot-I only deal with small one or two man band ltd companies, not any larger than that so I could be by this...or will clients still not be bothered to do it themselves?
This is my thinking too. Although as a previous poster said, if they hear of xero through friends then ask why we haven't recommended it to them we will look bad, so damned either way really.
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Sorry for the confusion 4 thanks
Hi two sheds,
Statutory accounts functionality will only be available to our accounting partners through the Partner Programme.
Sorry for being unclear in the webinar this morning.
Leigh Stallard
Associate Account Manager, Xero UK
@LeighStallard
Associate Account Manager, Xero UK
@LeighStallard
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A missed opportunity Leigh?
Hi Leigh, I'm firmly of the belief that, in the long run, you will need to release this functionality to the punters. iXBRL may have been a bit of rollercoaster to start with but in years to come it will just be part of what the IT does and why should we (accountants) be artificially protected by telling the punters "only your accountant can press this button and tick that box"?
I know that Xero has been designed to keep the accountant in control but others, FreeAgent in particular, design their systems around the user with the accountant there to help if needed and it speaks volumes that, if you keep your books on FreeAgent, it gives you a good approximation of your Corporate or personal tax liabilities.
Iris has launched its Cloud Tax facility, but only to accountants, in other words, if I sign up for it, my client can not login (like they can with their bookkeeping) to enter their P60 or bank interest resulting in us having to waste our time as unnecessary data collecters/handlers.
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Sure they will in due course
Paul Scholes wrote:
Hi Leigh, I'm firmly of the belief that, in the long run, you will need to release this functionality to the punters.
I'm sure longer term they will...and like you suggest, FreeAgent make no secret about the fact that it is on their roadmap for people to be able to submit accounts and CT/SA returns from the software. May well be years rather than months away, but it'll happen.
I imagine they open it up to accountants first of all, as accountants are more likely to check the numbers before they go in, and will help Xero iron out the inevitable teething problems. Once it's proved to be reliable and resilient to user daftness, I imagine they will open it up to end users...although I'm sure it'll come with a massive caveat about the accuracy of the data.
In my view accountants are glorified beta testers on this...but as has been suggested above, steering clients away from the inevitable isn't really a viable solution.
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yes but
Agreed that the technology is making compliance quicker/smoother, etc. However, will this result in a significant loss of a/cs prep clients?
I haven't had a mass movement of my SA clients to DIY, for example. I think there must be other issues at play here that appear to override Paul's prognosis. Not entirely sure what they are, though.
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Perhaps we're naive 2 thanks
@PaulScholes & Maslins - Perhaps we're being naive but we don't really see it that way.
Regardless of what a particular software feature is designed to do today, and whether that's a client task or the accounting professional's task - in the long run we don't see the needs of small businesses fundamentally changing in respect of requiring expert guidance and help.
Sure, some of the more capable small businesses owners may well become less reliant on accountants and bookkeepers when it comes to doing the very basic bookkeeping admin, but that's probably a good thing and inevitable anyway. Zoomed in close up, if that's all you do for your clients then, yes, change is coming whether Xero brings it or anyone else.
We're actually betting that the real shift isn't the imminent redundancy of thousands of bookkeepers and accountants or that professionals who adopt cloud products and methods are unwittingly sowing the seeds of their future destruction, but that small businesses will enjoy a much richer and fundamentally more supportive relationship with their accountants - and one that nurtures and supports the growth prospects of small businesses and small business owners in ways that are simply not possible with disconnected systems. And if tht happens we think that accountants will benefit from this big upgrade, too.
So, if we're right about that then the investments we're making in building new products are not just designed to produce straight-swap, cloudier alternatives to incumbent desktop systems, but will actually serve to provide the necessary plumbing and architecture for these higher value relationships to exist and flourish.
As grand as that might sound, it's absolutely the journey we're on.
Time will tell if we're right.
Gary Turner
Managing Director, Xero
@garyturner
Managing Director, Xero
@garyturner
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Agree with Gary
Picked up a new client this month. They use free agent, sold to them by bank.
They have used it competently, but now they are busier they don't want to spend their evenings doing their accounts!
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Depends on the current client relationship 1 thanks
OGA I agree with you (see my first posting above), there are thousands more out there like that one.
Gary, I too agree with you, as far as Xero is concerned because, from my point of view, the types of business who do well with Xero are those that would have suited S*** or QBs in the past and most of those have always needed a reasonable level of input from us and would also benefit from decent monthly or quarterly reporting.
There is more to the UK bookkeeping market than Xero however and the majority of businesses do not need that sophistication and FreeAgent & others have made their money and increased their user base from that huge pool.
I'm also pretty sure that the majority of businesses submit their own accounts to companies house and HMRC without the need for an accountant and, in fact, are perfectly capable of doing a reasonable job at it.
In my own case, because I find the basics so boring, I've deliberately lost clients by showing them how easy it is to do their own numbers and tax returns online, with perhaps a small annual charge for me to check them before they push the button.
I don't know about David's business but certainly from my own experience in-house and in watching other firms, many clients have not been allowed anywhere near their own bookkeeping. They have been lead to believe that it is so mysterious that it must be rocket science that only accountants and bookkeepers can handle. The irony is that, because so many accountants used S***, if the client ever got to see an input screen it would just reinforce that fallacy.
However, does the business really need that complexity to do its books, does the client need to send off all it's manually produced invoices, bank statements, cheque books & paying in books, to the accountant/bookkeeper for them to be manually entered?
Not now they don't and whilst I again agree with Gary, that we, and many firms, are experiencing a richer and more supportive relationship with their clients because of online acounting, I'm pretty sure many more won't and will see this as a threat to what, for 30 years, has been a monopoly.
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I think it's a real