Thursday, June 20, 2013

Chat with Avalara, the Sales Tax Experts, About Digital Products Taxability



From GoingConcern we read: The following post is sponsored content by Shane Ratigan, Content Compliance Manager at Avalara. Check back here this Wednesday at 1 pm for a live chat with Avalara who will answer your questions. You can set up a reminder below.
You don’t have to be a SALT accountant to know that sales tax is the topic du jour amongst Congressional good fellows and itinerant gypsy song makers. Blame Amazon, or tax free online shopping, or your evil, bullying cousin Willis. 

But read on, CPA warrior, as we give you the 411 on the latest sales tax rigamarole. And then you, yes YOU, can sound smart and incisive as you pass along these gems to your clients. 
From gypsy to country, al- rock to techno-pop, the taxability of digital music and other products have neurotic (under 40) CPAs wringing tear-soaked handkerchiefs in life coach offices all along the West Coast. Can you hear them? They’re crying now. “How can I advise on digital product taxability, when states are a mess on the subject?” From the existential depths of the nearest CPA’s psyche, parsing statutory guidelines regarding digital goods taxability is as easy as getting your mini-pony to consume non-organic buckwheatwhich which, as we all know, is NOT EASY AT ALL.

In terms of sales tax compliance, digital goods are hot right now—states are debating definitions and the feds are considering uniform rules.  As consumers increasingly prefer to stream movies, or digital books, or -- only God knows why -- Taylor Swift tunes, states are under increased pressure to address this new tax puzzle. And fast. 
But good luck trying to parse which state requires sales tax on digital goods (goods which include everything from movies, to online games, to other streamed content). They don’t agree or have much consistency between jurisdicitons. And why should they? States cannot agree on candy taxability, or whether CPA services should be considered taxable. Why should digital goods be any different?
   
States like Washington define digital goods very specifically, while others barely spare a passing glance at the subject (we’re looking at you, New York). The states are arrayed on an arc of specificity, ranging from ‘not very helpful at all’ (NY) to ‘obsessively specific’ (WA).  
Other digital taxability approaches du jour among states:
  • some digital objects are tangible personal property; 
  • some digital objects are intangible software; 
  • or even that some digital objects are electronically supplied services.
For the first time in decades, the federal government might be able to dispel some of this confusion. The Digital Goods and Services Fairness Act, currently being considered in the House, would standardize definitions of digital objects across the U.S., while leaving the question of taxability up to the individual states.  The proposed law hews very closely to the Streamlined Sales Tax (SST) definition of digital objects and thus SST member states are least likely to be impacted by a possible passage of the law.
So put down those kerchiefs and carry on, CPA warriors! Every time a sales tax statute is changed, a bell rings. And every time a bell rings, your professional value is corroborated.

12:56
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Welcome to the live chat.
12:56
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Thank you for attending. Please send questions at any time.
12:57
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
We are talking about sales taxes today especially in the realm of digital goods.
12:58
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Digital goods like songs or movies are what usually come to mind. but in many states they are not defined at all.
12:58

Comment From Tom 
How do the states tax digital goods?
12:59
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
The states are all over the map (duh), but fall into three main categories
12:59
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Some states are really proactive in defining and taxing digital goods for sales tax purposes.
1:00
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Others are better at defining digital goods and letting taxpayers know what is taxable and when
1:00
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
finally some states don't do a good job of defining or explaining the taxability of digital goods
1:02
Brian Austin: 
We'll also be addressing any questions related to the taxability of Cloud Services (SaaS, Platform-as-a-Service, Infrastructure-as-a-Service)
1:02
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
The market for digital goods is really just know coming on the radar of many states for sales tax purposes. Like cloud services and software in general, many states are slow to adopt their sales tax laws to changing markets.
1:02

Comment From Bobby 
How do online sales relate?
1:04
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Sales made online may or may not include a sale of digital goods, but for many states the issues of any electronically delivered items and digital goods are linked.
1:04

Comment From CPA Guest 
For the states that tax downloaded songs, if a download is particularly sexy, is there a surtax?
1:04
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Sexy is in the eye of the listener of course. State auditors are a unique bunch though.
1:05
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
there is a federal law actually that prevents a state from applying a special surtax to an electronically delivered item.
1:06
Brian Austin: 
Roughly half of states are now taxing downloadable music - sexy or no...
1:06

Comment From Charlie 
This isn't digital product related but similar - My state (NC) doesn't allow us to set up an amazon affiliate program. If I want to participate, should I set up an LLC in another state?
1:07
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
You are right this is not a digital goods question. this is a legal advice kind of question which I am unable to provide today. That said, why not?
1:07

Comment From Stoner 
How does Avalara define digital goods?
1:08
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
avalara doesn't actually dictate definitions of items to the states. We use the resources available from the states and third parties to provide rules for our customers that reflect the positions of the states
1:09
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
The term "digital goods" is not consistently applied on a state by state basis. The states use other terms to describe digital objects.
1:09
Brian Austin: 
Shane has just completed a white paper devoted to this subject - "The Identification and Taxability of Digital Products". Feel free to send me an email - brian.austin@avalara.com - and I'll forward a copy of the white paper to you.
1:09

Comment From Stoner 
Thanks - but can you give some general examples or guidelines?
1:10
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
sure for example, washington (where I am, its cloudy thank you for asking) is very explicit in describing what is or what is not a digital object for sales tax purposes
1:11
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
music (audio works), movies (audio-visual works) and digital books the the three big categories in WA
1:13
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
other states are less technical, in Illinois,digital goods are downloaded books, musical recordings, newspapers or magazines
1:13
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
some states, like New York don't define digital goods in law or regulation
1:15
Brian Austin: 
And the most aggressive states will be looking to broadly expand the definition of digital goods to include software and services delivered electronically (our company, Avalara, would fall into this category)
1:15
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Since digital goods usually are delivered free of any physical medium, they are sometimes lumped together with electronically delivered software.
1:16
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
There is federal legislation in the US House that would change the position of many states
1:17

Comment From AlabamaCPA 
Where is this headed?
1:17
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
The Digital Goods and Services Act is being debated as a counterpart to the Mainstreet Fariness Act
1:17

Comment From Guest 
Does the tax apply in the state it is downloaded from, or the where the business resides?
1:18

Comment From Guest 
Would this help cut own on email spam?
1:18
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
One core element of both the proposed federal law and the states position on 'sourcing' is the sales are calculated on destination basis
1:18
Brian Austin: 
Nice try, but no - no direct effect on email spam ;)
1:19
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
"sourcing" is the term of art to describe where a transaction is actually calculated for sales tax purposes.
1:19
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Roughly speaking, destination based sourcing refers to the location of your customer.
1:20
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Of course, mobile commerce makes the acquisition of a 'destination' address tricky in some cases
1:21
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
the core policy remains though, sales of digital goods are meant to be calculated and remitted based on the location of the customer and the customer's use
1:22
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
digital goods are taxed in different ways state by state
1:23
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
States that do a good job of defining them do not always tax them, and states that do not give us much to work with expect taxes will be paid on their sale
1:23
Brian Austin: 
For AlabamaCPA - though Alabama doesn't specifically define digital goods for sales tax purposes, they do define tangible personal property as "personal property which...is in any manner perceptible to the senses."
1:24

Comment From BobbyJ 
How does Avalara's product help with all of this?
1:26
Brian Austin: 
We provide automated sales tax services and products that address the complexity of calculating, filing and remitting sales tax in over 14,000 taxing jurisdictions nationwide.
1:26

Comment From AlabamaCPA 
what do you see as the likelihood of this legislation making it through the House?
1:26
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
I don't really have a good handle on the likelihood. According to a blog post I read on politico or huff post or somewhere, there are some Representatives who would only support Marketplace Fairness if the digital goods bill was passed as well.
1:27
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Big picture, the ability of Congress to legislate in this area (interstate sales) is unchallenged. A corollary would be the telecommunications act from 10 years ago or so
1:29
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
also, to not so much fanfare, there was a federal law passed last Congress that addressed digital goods, so the precedent is really strong that Congress will eventually weigh in on the sales taxability of digital goods
1:29

Comment From BobbyJ 
Does your product stand alone, or does it integrate with other tax software?
1:31
Brian Austin: 
We're currently integrated with about 260 accounting, CRM, point-of-sale, mobile commerce and eCommerce solutions. On the ERP side, we're integrated across the board, from QuickBooks to SAP ECC.
1:32
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
one point, the proposed federal law on digital goods does not dictate taxability (whether to tax a digital good or not) to the states, but it would require the states adopt universal definitions if they (the states) want to tax digital goods going forward
1:32

Comment From AlabamaCPA 
What is the sentiment in Congress re bringing this to a vote before the end of the year?
1:33
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
I am in the wrong washington to really know but if there is a political link between the digital goods and services fairness act and the marketplace fairness act, I think there is a good chance we will see a vote. I think MFA has a great deal of momentum.
1:34
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Marketplace Fairness Act is in the news today in an interesting way
1:35
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
The Attorney Generals of Oregon, Montana and Alaska have come out against the proposed bill
1:36
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Those states all lack a home state sales tax, so there may be many vendors in those state who have never really seen a sales tax form. but will be required to learn all about them from many other states
1:37
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
The states without a sales tax are not able to tax digital goods separately from a general sales tax so they are out of that loop as well
1:37

Comment From SALTy Dog 
What's the most common question you're hearing from your customers right now?
1:38
Brian Austin: 
Our most frequent question is around the expansion into new states, and what constitutes Nexus.
1:39
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
many vendors are concerned about the implications of Marketplace Fairness Act. However the act itself only relates to an obligation to collect and the shifting sands of taxability and rates and boundaries will continue to present challenges
1:39

Comment From CPA Guest 
Are you generally upbeat for the prospects of cloud computing to improve efficiencies in our industry? (Even if we grant that some state laws are written by people who don't know what "the cloud" is.)
1:41
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
cloud, shmoud, for sales tax purposes, some states cling to a legal fiction that a cloud based software service is actually a delivery of tangible personal property!
1:43
Brian Austin: 
As more business functions move to the cloud, and more businesses (and their customers) adopt cloud-based applications, there's an inevitability that we'll see improved efficiencies in our industry. Whether it's completing expense reports in a cloud app, or accessing business-critical tax reporting functions, it's changing fast, and generally for the better...
1:44

Comment From SALTy Dog 
Aha, so do most of your clients deal in digital products? Nexus is pretty clear in cases where a physical presence exists.
1:44
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Nexus is clear in many cases, but at the fringe there is a great deal of fact based analysis. vendors of digital goods need to look at their operation as a whole like any other vendor
1:44

Comment From CPA Guest 
As we move into the final quarter of this exciting exchange (really!) can I ask, who is your favorite accountant on TV or in the movies? The CPA hero in Shawshank Redemption?
1:45
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
You have me on Avalara's dime for the next 15 minutes. ask away
1:45
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
they dont write good parts for good accountants
1:46
Brian Austin: 
Favorite accountant on TV - Ozzie Nelson from Ozzie and Harriett. Anyone want to challenge this?
1:47
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
believe it or not, in NE Portland oregon, the streets are the Simpson characters and vice versa (the streets have been there since before Matt Groenig was a lad). I used to go to a bar (Laurelwood) on Flanders way
1:47

Comment From Tony Stefanelli, CPA 
Will NY heavily target cloud service providers after their success in the Amazon/Overstock victory?
1:49
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
The victory NY made was to assert nexus for a company who advertised on a NY website. Cloud providers and the services they sell are subject to tax or not based on NY's position on them.
I dont think the court win neccessarily affects NYs position on cloud services, but the court case sure got people talking in Albany about all the new fancy toys the kids are using these days.
1:50

Comment From Audience member 
Thank you for subjecting yourself to the questions today. I may speak for a lot of your Going Concern audience when I tell you, Shane, you are a true tax hero compared to the bad guys making the GC news lately (insider trading at KPMG, tax scammer in Brooklyn, and more).
1:50
Brian Austin: 
I'm sitting next to Shane as we speak. He's wearing a cape, and really is a true tax hero.
1:50
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
also note I dont like federal prisons any more than the next guy
1:51
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
the cape can be purchased separately from our taxheroes website. I will sign it for an extra $250
1:52
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
I dont usually plug the product, but I will recommend you check out our avalara.com website for free resources, including some webinars we (me) have done recently
1:52

Comment From Felix 
Is there tax on it?
1:52
Brian Austin: 
I know there were many "unasked" questions today related to Marketplace Fairness Act - we've set up a new website devoted to MFA education - feel free to check it out - www.salestaxchanges.com
1:53
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
absolutely. The rate will be absolutely accurate by the way.
1:53

Comment From Audience member 
To Felix: that depends on whether Avalara has nexus in your jurisdiction! Sourcing is destination-based, as we learned today!
1:53
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
no competition for the host please! excellent answer though.
1:54

Comment From Audience member 
Also text your bio photo to Adrienne Gonzalez for the pinterest tax hotties site.
1:55
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
there are always questions later or somebody will walk into your office tomorrow with a sales tax question so here is my email address.

shane.ratigan@avalara.com
1:56
Brian Austin: 
Is Adrienne accepting photos of humans? I might send over a cat photo instead...
1:57
Brian Austin: 
I can be contacted at brian.austin@avalara.com - feel free to reach out to me.

Again, Shane's new white paper, "Identification and Taxability of Digital Products" is now available. Please send me an email if you're interested in receiving a copy.
1:58
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
We are hitting a hard 11:00 PST deadline
1:58
Shane Ratigan - Avalara: 
Thank you for attending and participating today.
1:59

Comment From Taxfan 
Good bye and thank you for answering all the questions (both serious and foolish)!
1:59

Comment From AlabamaCPA 
Thank you so much! Very helpful!
2:00

Comment From Felix 
Thanks, guys!
2:03



 
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3 comments:

  1. Your website is terribly informative and your articles are wonderful.http://digitalproductblueprintreview.net/

    ReplyDelete
  2. Your website is terribly informative and your articles are wonderful.http://digitalproductblueprintreview.net/

    ReplyDelete
  3. I would office two additional sources for up to date MFA (Marketplace Fairness Act) info:
    http://emainstreet.org
    http://marketplacefairnesscoalition.org
    Both sites also address RTPA (Remote Transactions Parity Act) which is basically MFA 2.0.

    ReplyDelete